having just downloaded the Terrabit program Tattoo, wondering if I could get a little input from the initiated.

My first hint given by bazza was that the 3DC model needs to be uv mapped (in 3DC?). Secondly, exported into one of the Tattoo allowable import formats, I believe .x format was mentioned as a cross platform in common.

First question, not having done much uv mapping.

In 3DC, uv mapping requests a texture be added to the object before it can uv map. Does it matter what texture, as I presume one would paint the object in Tattoo?

Next, shall I presume (correctly?) each object in the 3DC scene to be exported needs its own uv map, as uv mapping does not seem to be availible when all objects are selected? Or do they need to be merged into one object and then a texture applied?

Jumping way ahead, once textures are modified in Tattoo, the modifications will import back into 3DC?

I haven't really got the program open yet, other than to stare wondering at the GUI

Any other Nubie tips would also be appreciated.

To get some practice go to the file menu and Load Model > Woman.b3d. Its in the Examples folder of Tattoo.
When you get your eyes back in their sockets read on.!!!

The normal method of painting a skin for a figure would be to unwrap the figure either in 3DC or somthing like Ultimate Unwrap 3D.
The Uv map you create is then loaded into a paint program and you do all the art work in the paint progrm.

What Tattoo lets you do is to load the model ( I use .x) and you then paint the model which is automaticlly transfared to your UV map (skin)
A much better way of doing things. Especially for figures.

It would be great to be able to load the 3DC file into Tatto and Ultimate Unwrap. Richard?

Most of the features you find in a paint program are included in Tattoo.

Maybe my comment that the model needs to be UV mapped first was a bit misleading.
When you unwrap a figure you automaticlly create the Uv Map.
So I should have said, " the model needs to be unwraped first."

If you create a few textures first, say a skin texture, a hair texture etc. Tattoo lets you paint from these textures onto your model, if you wish.

Each model needs to be unwrwpped seperately.

You are painting to the skin you exported from 3DC so when you import the file back into 3DC all modifications to the skin will also be imported. Or should be!!!

Again all this should be done before you do the final animations.

If you want a figure to practice on you could download the three low poly figures from the Model Download section.
Export as .x and see what you can come up with.

It's just practice really, the map size for the above figures is 256 x 256 but if you were entering Richards competition with your own figure, I would unwrap at 512 x 512 or larger if you want.
You would then be able to paint the hairs in the nostrills and ears.

Hope some of this helps.

I'm just off to work (sad), so if I think of any hints and tips I'll let you know.
My main one as always, make a copy of the map before you start.

Bazza

having a blast so far. I did figure out that like 3DC, each object gets its own map file (didn't QUITE figure out that was supposed to be an unwrap, but that will help)

Drew up a wee character just to play with (an uncomplicated mouse, my gf loves it!), exported to .x First experience, the speed on my machine is going to take some patience. On my 1.8 GHz amd, it creeps. Well, I suppose no one ever said getting a tatto was painless.

Also, in importing the 'entire scene', composed of multiple objects, come to find each object is painted in the same position at the same time, so one sweep on one object get five lines on five ojects total.

Hot keys don't all seem to work, but I'll warant I'll need a pair of good hiking boots for the learning curve for a while.

Thanks for the tips thus far, though I'll likely be back with another brace of questions before long.

Re the speed issue...
This is most likely a graphics card driver problem. If you go to the Tattoo site, take a look at the 'Troubleshooting & FAQ's'. Question and answere No.2.

You can also try unchecking the 'Force to VRam' in Prefs. You need to re-start Tattoo for this to take effect.

Also take a look at answere No.6. You can change Tatto to run in 'low spec' mode.

Also try using the forum section of Tattoo. Lee is the best person to answere technical questions, and is always very helpful.


Re the 'one sweep problem'...

When you paint with Tattoo, although it appears as though you are painting the model, you are in fact, painting to the texture that is applied to that section of the model.
So if you applied the same texture in 3DC to say both arms, when you paint one arm in Tattoo, you would paint both, because you are painting the texture, not the arm. Get it?

A better example is a basic cube. Applying the same texture in 3DC to each face would create a similar problem in Tattoo.
However if you unwrapped the cube first, you would then be able to paint to each face seperately.

Again, don't forget to use the Tattoo forums also, they may be more helpful.

And remember to post anything you learn here.

Bazza

so far I'm still cooking with buffalo manna.

Say one has a model with several objects, say 12, 5 of which need texturing, each with a different texture on each side.

Wen you unwrap a whole object in 3DC, it gives you a flat map of a 3d object, front and back in the same 2d map. Solution in 3DC is to select a side and unwrap, this gives a planar map of a portion of the object. Texture created in a 3rd party software, loaded back as a texture map for that selected area.

However, when I select (by material, I unwrapped it that way) the single sided unwrap of an object and try to export to .x or .x framework, it skins all the objects in the scene, which will each paint at the same time.

How do I isolate a single surface, for example, half a sphere from the whole sphere, and get it into Tattoo? I'm shooting for objects with something different on either side. Example: T shirt with a logo on the front, picture on the back, ignore complexity for sake of the example.

First, Tattoo is a 'Mesh Skinning Tool' so All of your model needs to be Unwrapped / UV Mapped.

Or, to take your sphere example, you could unwrap half the sphere and apply a texture to the other half.
This would load into Tattoo as you wanted it to and you would be able to paint to the unwrapped area only,without affecting the texture area.

However I see no benefit from the second option, unwrapping the whole object gives you more options when you do the painting. You can still, if you wish, apply textures to any area of the model when it is imported back into 3DC, even though it is using a full skin.

If you have a model made up of seperate objects, each would have to be unwrapped in its own right.
Say a figure with a seperate hat and a sword, each would be unwrapped and then loaded into Tattoo for painting.
If the figure also had a gun in the other hand, you could just apply a texture to this item if you wish.

Also you don't have to use just ONE map.
You could say unwrap the body of a figure and save this as say "Body.bmp"
Then unwrap the head and save this as "Head.bmp"
When you load the figure into Tattoo, both maps would be loaded with the figure, ready for painting.

Your T-shirt example is the same as my serfman figure, the front of the jacket is different to the back.
The whole figure was unwrapped, it was then easy to paint the front and back as I wished and I could add things like creases and shading to the clothing.

I don't know if you downloaded the three low poly figures I mentioned, but if you did take a look at the Grim Reaper figure.
The figure was unwrapped and painted in Tattoo. The scythe was just textured in 3DC. Is this what you are trying to do?

Bazza

think I finally got it. Unwrap whole object, save bitmap, then uv map same object with bitmap texture in place, shows up with the bitmap grid over white on objec. Then export object to direct x frame heirarchy, open that object file in Tattoo.

Now it shows the skin in 3D in Tattoo, and lets me rotate it, which is didn't before i got the sequence right. Now the fun begins! Might just have to model that buffalo manna after all.

don't got it. I'd best go download that model you mentioned.

What I loaded: mouse ear, unwrapped and uv mapped, loaded into tattoo. When I paint one side, it paints the back side as well. I think this is a function if you unwrap an object in 3DC, it maps both front and back side overlaying itsself as so:


which results in this:


maybe if I unwrap EACH side and uv map them, then export as a single object?

HAH! By jigglies, I've got it!

ok, procedure: select areas of same object you want with exclusive textures (group select and paint brush), null texture, unwrap, save bmp. Re-select same area, uv map that. (see baby texturing tut in 3DC help)

Repeat for second, or any other individual textrues on same object. This gives a unique uv map for each area on the same object. Repeat this for ALL objects in the scene, giving each object its own one, two, or multiple sided uv map.

Export the entire scene to x framework, load in Tattoo. All objects in the scene will appear as a unique object with unique uv areas disigned in 3DC. Note: objects you do not care to texture in Tattoo don't HAVE to be unwrapped or uv mapped, just leave them alone in Tattoo. When you paint on a Tattoo UV map, the other objects in the scene are uneffected.

Now you can paint each area individually without the paint stroke on, say, the front bleeding through to the back. This allows for much more complex texturing of a model.

Yup. Now all I need is some tallent! HAH!

Pleased you finally cracked it.

I was going to mention the baby tutorial method but didn't want to confuse the issue any further!!

It seems to take ages sometimes to get the hang of things but you usually learn a lot of other useful bits and pieces along the way.

So after all this effort you are now in a position to write a 3DC/Tattoo tutorial and post it in the Mini-Tutorial section.

Keep it simple..ie..

1) Do this
2) Do that

Again, really pleased you got it sorted. Did you sort the speed issue also?

Bazza

speed is still a problem, haven't cracked it yet. My force to vram was already unchecked (um... I THINK.... solid box is unchecked, box with a box in it is checked??), though I haven't found 'run in low spec' yet. It seems to run a little faster anyway, based on loading up the files correctly, but I may just be imagining it. I suppose I could be slowing my brain down to compensate.

According to the Tattoo FAQs to get into 'low spec mode', you add a Capital 'L' to the first line 'prefs.txt' file. which is in your main Tattoo folder.
Another way is to download the 'low spec' option and drop it into the Tattoo install directory.
You can find a link to the 'low spec' download in the Tattoo FAQs, answere No.6

If 'Force to VRam' is unchecked, have you tried checking it? Remember to re-start Tattoo for it to take effect.

I'm still a bit baffled as to why you want to unwrap only part of your figure.
You are missing out on a lot of the things Tattoo can do for your model.

If you take the Baby tutorial as an example, the end result would be much improved if a complete unwrap was used and loaded into Tattoo.

You could then add shading to the inside of the arms and legs and folds in the skin areas, as most babies are a bit on the tubby side.

Trouble is I still am.

Bazza

again, as with the example of the mouse ear unwrap (pic posted above) in 3DC if you do a total object unwrap, it doesn't stretch the whole mesh out in a single plane, it doubles it over so the front of the mesh and the back of the mesh are in the same 2D plane. Unless, of course, I haven't figured out how to do that properly in 3DC. The result in Tattoo is you get the same texture on the front of the object as the back (second image, side view of mouse ear. The pink should be on only on the front side of the modified torus, however it shows up also on the back), which is undesirable.

Take a look at the unwrap mesh picture I posted above. Note it looks like two nets transposed over on another. Thats because they are: the front and the back of the same object. Thereby, what becomes added to the front mesh is also added to a coresponding area on the back of the mesh.

I don't have a good unwrap tool yet, and this is a way of solving that problem.

I was actually writing a tutorial on this, illustrating this point with two objects, one total unwrap, one with two half unwraps. However, I ran into a snag, as for some reason I haven't fathomed yet, each of the half wraps are mirroring laterally on the same wrap (painting diagonal line on the left side of the half wrap results in a V as the draw is mirrored on the right). Back to the drawing board I suppose, as I am still not getting it somewhere.

This message has been edited. Last edited by: gmani,

To unwrap your mouse ear onto a single plane....

1) Select all the faces on ONE SIDE of the ear only
2) Select Unwrap Selection from the operations panel
3) When the unwrap window opens click the reduce button to scale down this side of the ear.
Use the arrows to move the co-ords to the top left hand corner.
Holding down CNTRL will give you fine adjustment
4) When you're happy click ok and save the map
5) Select all the faces on the OTHER side of the ear
6) Select Unwrap Selection from the operations panel
7) Repeat steps 3 and 4
8) Go to Tools >Use Plug-in >Update Material
9) Save the 3DC file.


Your Unwrapped ear map should look something like this.With BOTH sides unwrapped seperately.
Mine just happens to be round.!!

What you seem to have been doing is unwrapping both side of the ear onto the same map area.
Thats why, in Tattoo when you paint the front you paint the back also.!!!

You can now load this into Tattoo and paint both back and front seperatly.

If you were unwrapping a figure you would unwrap just the front of the face, reduce its size in the unwrap window and position it, as for the ear.
Then unwrap the sides of the head, reduce its size etc
Then unwrap the torso, front only, reduce its size etc
Then do the back.
You continue like this untill all the faces are unwrapped and positioned as you want them.
Then use the plugin and save the 3DC file.

You need to be careful when positioning each unwrap not to go over the edges of the map area.

Got it?

Bazza

Ear.jpg (69 Kb, 193 downloads)

Yes, in fact before my 'Hah by jingies' reply above I have done most of these steps (the resizing, not sure I understood that, but will look into it) with single sided textures.

I did figure out to save the two separate sides to two separate texture maps, and nulled the materials preview pane between each (half) unwrap. It seemed to actually be going marvelously until I tried writing a tut using two cylinders, one for half wraps and one for full. I think I may be making things too complicated there.

What I have not yet figured out is the rhyme and reason of how the directx frames hyeracrchy saves objects. When selecting an object from a scene with several objects, export to DFH. sometimes it exports one object (desirable) and sometimes the entire scene with all objects, uv mapped or not (undesirable).

The other problem, one object, two uvmaps on the same, where on one uv map the paint mirrors on the same uv map, I have no clue. Most of that was done far too late in the evening for me to have caught myself making critical blunders.

A question: in exporting to .x, are you exporting the object with just one side uv mapped and then export the other as a separate .x file, or are you mapping both uv textures on the same object at the same time, and importing them into Tattoo together?

Still trying to find the pit I've dug for myself, but I'm certain I should trip on it soon.

I think I see the difference in what you did and I have done. You have used the same map for the two partial unwraps, relocated the grid on the same map. I was saving to a separate map.

I'm now rechecking to see if I applied the 'smooth' operation to my brain. Hopefully, I have yet to click 'commit'.

Yes, that is how unwraps are done, usually on one map.
You start by selecting a group of faces, unwrap,scale and position on the map area. Then select more faces and so on.

Unwrapping say a figure can be quite a long job and needs practice. Especially getting everything to fit onto the map area.

Which is why most figure models are built with arms and legs outstretched. It's easier to get at all the faces that way for the unwrap.

Thats why I like Ultimate Unwrap, you can select and arrange all the faces AROUND the map area, then take your time and scale and fit them onto the UV map.

Bazza

Here are the three unwraps from the figures I mentioned, Serfman, Wizard and Grim Reaper.

These were some of my first attempts with Tattoo, my artistic talents have come on a bit since then.

But notice the creases and shading in Serfmans jacket, also the folds in the cloak of the Grim reaper.

This is what Tattoo is good at. It lets people like me, with no artistic ability, produce a reasonable skin.

Again, if you download the figures you will be able to see how the faces were selected and unwrapped.

Bazza

Skins.jpg (59 Kb, 161 downloads)

And Blitz bringing it all together.

This is a screenshot from an adventure game I seem to have been writting in Blitz for years!!

Serfman has just released the Wizard from his prison!!!
You would think, a Wizard of any standing, would be able to do this quite easily without assistance.
Maybe he was having an off day.

Bazza

WizPic.jpg (64 Kb, 149 downloads)

To answere your other two questions....sorry I missed these....

Exporting to .x
If you have a single mesh which you have unwrapped onto two seperate maps, say one for the head, one for the body. When you export to .x both maps will be attached. You only need to export once, BUT remember you MUST run the Plug-in 'Update Material' to attach your maps to the model.
You can do this after you unwrap each set of faces if you wish.

If you have multiple objects combined to produce your figure, say separate arms, legs,torso etc.
You can still unwrap these onto the same map.

The main thing to keep in mind, is that as you unwrap the model, ALL THE FACES MUST HAVE THEIR OWN PIECE OF THE MAP.
There are one or two exceptions to this but more of this at a later date.


The hierarchy thing
Exporting to DFH is usually used for animations. Take the above figure with seperate arms, legs,etc.
In this case I would build the torso and make this the root object.
Then build an arm and drop this folder into the torso folder
Continue as above with the other arm, legs and head.
You can then animate each part seperatly. YOU DON'T NEED BONES TO DO THIS
You then select the torso, >Select Hierarchy and export as DFH
This will export the complete figure with animation.

Bazza