Hi All,

I'm 100% available as of Monday (March 31st) to work on the Rail Simulator export.

I'm not certain, but for technical reasons I may only be able to work on the File -> Export version of the export, not the Train Simulator Wizard version. The problem is that I can't put out a new version of 3D Canvas, just update the plug-ins, and I think the Wizard version is dependent on 3D Canvas changing.

So, we need a list of priorities. My opinion:

1) Export Reliability - All Sub Objects Appear

I'll need examples of this, so if you have any can you send the to support@amabilis.com?

2) Shadows

I suspect that the problem is that I am setting the "double sided?" flag to "no". In my experience looking at the Rail Simulator created models, they typically had that set to "yes" even though it wasn't typically required. This, of course is a real performance killer, so I said "no", since that's the 3D Canvas standard. I can change this to "yes" for shadows and maybe that will cure it.

3) Verify/Correct Diffuse/Ambient/Specular etc

Dom pointed this out. I'm not certain what these should be, but I'll look. Dom and I will have to talk.

4) Set optional parameters for shaders

I still don't have documentation from Kuju on this even though I've requested it twice.

5) Auto-vehicle numbering

I have a sample which shows this working from 3D Canvas. It's a bit convoluted how it works. I haven't figured it out yet, but I have hopes.

6) Try to make it so mileposts and speed limit signs can be created. I haven't looked at this at all. Hopefully I can figure it out.

7) Verify group names are unique on export

8) Verify that only one texture is used with TexDiff. Maybe there are other shaders that I should check this with too?

I think that's it, but there could be more.

This message has been edited. Last edited by: Amabilis Support,

Any chance of looking into the issues raised regarding the application of texture sets to models (as KRS document "Asset Authoring Guidelines" 4.3 etc.) so that we can build mileposts, speed limit signs etc. It may also impact on the auto vehicle numbering, but even less is known about this. They would appear to use "sub-materials".

Thanks
Mark Brinton

Hi

At the moment the export will not report an error if groups are named the same... sub object error results.. a name check on groups would be helpful.

There seems to be disparity between levels of specular, ambient , diffuse between the game and canvas... see Doms thread.

The default shader is texdiff, if this applied to a material that has an enviro map it exports OK but fails blueprinting. This can take some tracking down.
Any chance of being able to set the default shader to your own choice?

The RailSim custom box (not material) seems to cause problems and does not appear to be necessary as you choose your own blueprint type.

The ability to see alpha levels as gloss not trans would save a lot of work and texturing outside of 3DC.

Great product

Sly

Mark,

I've added this to my list.

Sly,

I've added your suggestions about groups/specular etc.

I can add a warning about the texdiff issue. I'm not sure how to add the default shader. Any thoughts on how it would fit into 3D Canvas? I'll have to think about this one.

Do you mean the custom group causes problems? I'm not sure what you mean.

Alpha as gloss... I have no idea how to do that. I'll have to think about that one too.

Hi

Yep the custom group can cause problems.and I can't see what its actually needed for.

I found if you have used the wizzard at any time, and then make an object a sibling of the main group... it automatically puts in the last exported railsim catagory eg building, locomotive etc..
This then results in the sub object problem.

In an Ideal world..... the Railsim shader field would have a dropdown of Railsim compatable shaders.. if there is a texture in the enviro map slot, then one of the required fx shaders should be the default.

or error checking upon export coud report that a single pass shader has an enviro map (it may also be the same for a bump map) and report the object name.

Just thoughts

Sly

Hi Richard,

For item 6), Mileposts and Speedposts are working on my side.

Will give more details on the tests I will make ...

This message has been edited. Last edited by: Genesis_Man,

item 2) Shadows.
If you did go the double sided route, Richard, could you make this optional? I've come very close to the recomended maximum an all the steam locos I've built, so far. Not sure that doubling this figure would be very good!! Somebody has reported, elsewhere on the forum that using the face paint tool, rather then the bucket fill tool helps with shadows. Not sure if that has been confirmed.

5) Auto-Vehicle numbering.

This seems to work ok in the latest version of Canvas (7.1.2). The part I sent you (which worked ok in releases prior to 7.1.2, doesn't work in the latest release!


Alpha as gloss... I have no idea how to do that. I'll have to think about that one too.

I'm not sure how that would work, to be honest.

The way I am working in railsim is to only use .bmp textures and the standard canvas texdiff (I presume) shader when building and texturing the model. To make life simple I make sure that all the parts that use "texture 1" are in one group and all the parts using texture 2 are in another separate group, etc. Once you are happy with the mesh and texturing you can then easily change the shader, add bump maps and env maps etc, to each group by doing a simple update texture command to that group.

I only do this for loco, coach and wagon bodies. I have a separate texture for the wheels and leave this set to the default shader.

I then make a same named .tga copy of the .bmp texture, add the greyscale gloss levels to the alpha channel and export that and check in the game. It will be necessary to alter the alpha levels to get the gloss you require.

Kevin

quote:

For item 6), Mileposts and Speedposts are working on my side.

Will give more details on the tests I will make ...

Got a Speed Sign working but the old Milepost does not. Will try making a Milepost from scratch instead and see if that works. Can't understand that there should be any difference in how they work. I'm using 3D Canvas 7.1.2.

/Anders

My 2 cent...

quote:

I suspect that the problem is that I am setting the "double sided?" flag to "no".

I have no problem with the shadows system as is now...

quote:

Somebody has reported, elsewhere on the forum that using the face paint tool, rather then the bucket fill tool helps with shadows. Not sure if that has been confirmed.

Fill tool = no problem at all

The bucket fill works for me as well, just repeating what was said elsewhere on the forum.

Kevin

The cause and a solution to the artifacts in shadows has already been found.

http://home.exetel.com.au/randomsoftware/railsim/tutorials/shadows_001.html

But how to achieve this in 3DC?

I've found the use of the paint brush instead of the fill tool to work, but not in all cases. In fact I have only been able to produce correct shadows from basic primitives and not from imported TSM shapes (even simple cubes!).

Stuart

This has become a long one. I'll have to address one at a time. First, shadows.

Scefhwil,

It looks like what he is describing is creasing. If you apply a crease operation to the shadow (with full crease effect), it should achieve the same effect. But, now that I think of it, that might not be it, because a simple cube has problems. I'll have to keep thinking about this one. It may be a combination of things.

Certainly, every round object, eg chimneys and domes, must be given a full crease operation (100) for the shadow to work.

Kevin

On my problem shadow objects I've tried applying various levels of crease as well as the crease all pulg-in. Creasing certainly effects the way artifacts appear but has not fully removed them.

Another peculiarity. Even if a shadow model has been created from a symetric primative, is only modified in symeteric ways and is textured with the paint faces tool it can still have non-symetric shadow artifacts. ie it might have no artifacts when first viewed in the Blueprint Editor but upon rotating it 180 degrees the shadow shape has gained artifacts.

Stuart

The rotation issue is one thing I've wondered about. I wonder if the group for a shadow needs to be normalized.

I'm going to do some experimentation.

First, I have to set up a computer to work on. This is a special case because I'll be working on a plug-in for a previous release of 3D Canvas. I can't put out a new version of 3D Canvas because it will take a month rather than a week to make the changes to the Rail Simulator exporter. I have lots of work to do on 3D Canvas to get it up and running well again. I'm made some major changes to 3D Canvas for the upcoming upgrade to DirectX 9. (I'm still on DirectX 8)

Hi Richard,

For item 2)

Take a look at this post if not already done:
http://amabilis.com/eve/forums/a/tpc/f/50410947331/m/71...10066441#60710066441

Perhaps it concern the section "Introducing the 'Edge Split' Modifier" in the http://home.exetel.com.au/randomsoftware/railsim/tutorials/shadows_001.html topic.

I've had a disasterously bad week and a half of work. I tried to take the "quick way" to getting an improved exporter out and it went very badly. So, I've given up on that and am now trying to get the new version of 3D Canvas up and running properly.

Sorry for the delay! I have to remember to think like Microsoft and make no promises. Sometimes things don't go well and there's nothing to be done but take longer than expected.

I think I don't need to mention this, but I've had a rough few weeks. What I thought were relatively straight forward changes to 3D Canvas turned out to be quite another thing. I am in the process of re-writing all of the scripting and plug-in interface.

I'm wondering if perhaps I could put out a version of 3D Canvas that doesn't work properly (non-export/import plug-ins and scripts disabled) as an "exporter" for Rail Simulator. It's not what I'd like to do, but maybe I can get an update to Rail Simulator out faster if I do that.