Richard

The subobject feature for MSTS signal creation is not functioning in 3DCP7113 nor was it in 7112.

For the foreseeable future, I will be creating objects mostly for MSTS with RS as a side interest. Therefore, I need all the former MSTS functions working including this one.

With this in mind, it might have been a better idea to keep the RS and MSTS wizards separate? It appears that there is enough difference between the 2 formats where one size won't fit both. Might the subobject problem be one of them?

Since my business is signal creation and I have no earlier version 3DCP where this function works, I'm dead in the water. I really don't want to resurrect GMAX to get this functionality.

Regards,
Hank Sundermeyer

This doesn't have anything to do with the wizard. The actual exports are entirely separate from the wizard.

More likely, this has to do with the upgrades made to the MSTS export a short while ago. There were many changes. I'm sure I tested sub-objects, but it's possible that I broke it after testing them. It happens sometimes.

Do you have any sample signals from version 6.6 (or earlier) of 3D Canvas? If you do, I can export from that version and the current version and compare the outputs to see what is the difference.

Btw, what specifically is happening? Will your models just not load into MSTS?

Note that I'll be moving this post to the "bugs" forum in a little bit.

quote:

Originally posted by Amabilis Support:
Btw, what specifically is happening? Will your models just not load into MSTS?

Hi, Richard,

The model loads normally, but the subobjects which can be made visible or invisible, by selecting in the properties dialog doesn't work. They are visible regardless of being checked or not.

If I find an archived version of v6, can it co-exist with v7x?

Thank you
Hank

Yes, there are two versions of 3D Canvas available on the downloads page (7.1 and 6.6.5) and they can co-exist.

I'd like to fix this though, so if you can send me a 6.6 (or earlier model), I'll get to fixing it.

Most of the models I'm currently working with are already converted to v7, so I can't retrofit them back to 6, so I will have to wait until a patch comes out.

Regards,
Hank

Sorry, it's going to be a few more days. I got horribly sidetracked with other things. I haven't had a chance to look at the model(s?) you sent yet.

Hank,

Can you export the models to another CAD format from version 7.1 and then import into 6.6? Might save you a painful gmax re-learning experience.

Strangely, the 3dc object libraries seem to be backward compatible.

With 7.1.1.3, if you select the whole group hierarchy, then right click/Send to library, you can then open that library in 6.6.5.16

Alternatively the X file format is probably the best way to keep a model whole when moving back versions.

quote:

Originally posted by Paul Gausden:
Strangely, the 3dc object libraries seem to be backward compatible.

With 7.1.1.3, if you select the whole group hierarchy, then right click/Send to library, you can then open that library in 6.6.5.16

Alternatively the X file format is probably the best way to keep a model whole when moving back versions.

Paul

Thank you for this tip. I couldn't get the library to open with the object in it.

The "x" format worked but didn't carry the texture mapping with it, though the help files say it should.

Regards,
Hank

Thank you all for the suggestions.

Paul, I did get the library transfer to work back to v6xxx. I don't know what I did wrong first. It drops the Main group, but that's easily reassigned.

Regards,
Hank

Yes, in most cases libraries are "backward compatible". That's a smart way to get items back to an earlier release. Never thought of that.

One thing though... if you move a model back to an earlier release via the libraries, the object layers probably won't work. The "current" version should be correct. And, you might be wise to do a "Compact All" (from the file menu) afterwards.

There's one glitch in the Library method. If the Object Library is new in version 7.x.x.x, it will not open in version 6.x.x.x.

If the Object Library is brought to v7 from v6 and v7 objects subsequently added to the library, it will open in v6. Go figure.

Incidentally, with the signal graphic made and exported with version 7 where the subobject feature didn't work, the same graphic with no changes retrofitted to version 6 has the subobject feature working just fine.
HS

I had a look at what you sent, and the file created by 7 is very similar to version 6. The only thing that stood out to me is that the "root" (main) of your model has no objects in it. In version 7, empty groups get a tiny triangle added to them. Sort of a "placeholder" for the group. Other than that the two files were pretty much the same. Btw, is this empty group required for some reason?

The sub-objects are definitely there. How is it that you reference the various sub-objects in the file? By name? I'm not familiar at all about signal creation. Can you give me an overview of what I need to do to validate this?

I have no idea if the Main root is needed by MSTS. Version 6 would not export to an S file unless it was there. The export process would ask you to select a base group and at that point the main root came into existence. No export without it. For Signals in MSTS, group names are important; SIGNAL, HEAD1, HEAD2, NUMBER, GRADE. These are the subobject identities used in the script that would cause them to function. Object names are irrelevant.

I opened V6xxx, took a model I knew was working, attached a poly to the main group and the model was screwed up when I loaded it into MSTS.

Adding that triangle might be the killer.

Regards,
Hank

Richard,

I did some additional experiments. With version6, I tried to export a model through File>Export>MSTS S file without the Main root and the model didn't work. If you export the same model with the Main root that way, the Main root is ignored and the model doesn't work.

Conclusion: For the signal model to work properly, the objectless Main root is needed. How or why, I have no idea.

Regards,
Hank

So, very briefly, what do I need to do to verify my export works in MSTS for signals? Is there some simple test that I can do? You mentioned "but the subobjects which can be made visible or invisible, by selecting in the properties dialog doesn't work".

Richard

To test it yourself would mean you would have to incorporate the signal into an existing route's signal system, scripts and all.

From what I've seen, the addition of the 'dummy' triangle on the Main root might be the cause. If you find away around doing that, the problem might go away.

The easiest and fastest way might be to let me test it, since I'm still creating signals for MSTS, if possible.

Hank

In your scripts, do you refer to items by name? Or some other way? Can you send me an example script?

As far as I can tell, the s file is correct. Maybe items have to be referenced in some other way.

In the worst case, version 6.6.5 can be installed at the same time as 7.1 just for signal creation, but obviously I don't want that to be the case.