Tranlucency – how do you do it?

An update one where we are:

Ian has successfully used models with translucency created with 3DC on his computer. Including one of his own models with the textures replaced with standard MSTS textures (I exported it and sent him the file). But he is still having troubles with models he exported himself with his own textures.

Kevm,

I don’t understand at all why there is a problem on your computer. A couple of suggestions:

1) replace your ace file with a standard MSTS texture. Just delete the texture you are using (the .ace file), copy the sscotsman04.ace file to the location where your texture needs to be and rename it to the name of your texture. Please be sure to follow this EXACTLY. There should be no changes made to the 3DC file or the S file.

2) find the part of the S file that looks like:

textures ( 6
texture ( 0 0 -3 ff000000 )
texture ( 1 0 -3 ff000000 )
texture ( 2 0 -3 ff000000 )
texture ( 3 0 -3 ff000000 )
texture ( 4 0 -3 ff000000 )
texture ( 5 0 -3 ff000000 )
)

And replace the -3’s with 0’s. I would be REALLY curious to see if this makes a difference. You’ll need to edit using Wordpad.

Before you try this MAKE SURE that MSTS is failing. It is very easy to loose track of where you are when you are trying lots of things. Also, make sure you try #1 first before going on to #2. I think you said you tried #1 before, but I would really like it if you tried again.

Thanks,

Richard

I have been doing plenty with transparency without seeming to have too many problems, so now I want to try some windows with glass in.
I have 4.23, I have created a .tga file with a mask (black and white). I applied the texture in the normal way, created the model (not with multiple LODs) and get transparent empty windows, no problem. I then go back and set the translucency to a non-zero number and reapply the textures, when I try to use the model in MSTS, it crashes and I can’t restart MSTS until I have rebooted.

I tried moving the parts I made translucent into a sub-frame, and I tried makeace with and without -trans all with the same results.
(What happens with multi LODs if I have put the main body sides into a sub-frame though?)

Also, I have noticed that using a .tga file I get degradation in the coloured bit of the texture. The .tga file looks fine and has 55,000 different colours in it, but in MSTS with transparent windows, the colours are very ‘digitised’. I only have 2 colours in the alpha channel, but it looks like its still using 8 bits.

Does this model that crashed MSTS have all of its faces Translucent]0? Or is it only select faces?

Richard

I guess along with the size of the andquot;train.exeandquot; file it would be good to have the version number.

Richard

I have curved the body sides of my coaches, so they both have 8 faces. I guess the windows themselves cover only 2 or 3 of these faces, so I will try painting them individually instead of across all 8 faces at once. I guess I can use ordinary transparency for the inner partition windows rather than translucency as it would not notice.

I have three texture files so far, one is a straight .bmp, one is a .tga that I use for transparent bits on the bogies. The third is a .tga that I want to use for the body sides with translucent windows. I was intending to do another with translucency for the interior so that I can set it to stay bright at night.

I like to build things up gradually and try it out after each step. The chassis and bogies were fine, I added the sides with a straight bmp, that was fine. I added transparency and got unglazed windows fine. As soon as I try to make it translucent, MSTS crashes and wants to tell Micro$oft all about it.

Nvidia GeForce 2 MX

Is it possible to email it all to me so I can have a look? (<!– e –><a href="mailto:richard@amabilis.com">richard@amabilis.com</a><!– e –>). That would be the best way to get it fixed. BTW what is your video card?

Also, have you looked into the translucency issue with Targa? Have you tried any of the targa files provided with MSTS with 3DC? As I mentioned in my other post, my limited testing showed everything to be OK. But I could just be missing something.

Richard

Ian,

I don’t know if I asked you this yet, but what video card do you have?

Richard

I will email it to you this evening (just started work LOL)
I have not played with the Scotsman tga files yet, wanting to get these standard UK coaches sorted out, so I am struggling on building ‘invisible’ models in 3DC that look fine in MSTS andnbsp;

ianm42,

Translucencies work ok for me, but i have not yet updated to Beta 2. andnbsp;I am still using 4.23 Beta 1. andnbsp;I am using one .bmp and one .tga. andnbsp;The .tga is being used for both translucency and transparency, and all works well for me. andnbsp;However, i have found that if i have too many transparencies on one model, MSTS crashes. andnbsp;Don’t know if it is a 3DC or MSTS problem. andnbsp;Now i just have one transparent object (added as a separate object under a frame) and 6 translucent faces. andnbsp;I was able to get it up to 6 translucent faces and 8 separate transparent objects (merged into the main body) at one point. andnbsp;At that point MSTS got sluggish, but still worked. andnbsp;Adding a couple more transparent objects killed it. andnbsp;I removed almost all the transparencies, as i didn’t like how they looked compared to actual objects.
As for the lesser quality on the .tga, that is an MSTS issue. andnbsp;If you have downloaded my Superliner repaints, you will notice the source .tga looks MUCH better than the car actually does in MSTS.
I am just about to download Beta 2 to try out the LOD. andnbsp;As i only have a 56K modem, i won’t download the actual release candidate of 4.23 until it has been thouroughly tested, as i simply don’t have the time to wait for an 18MB program to download. andnbsp;I’ll let you know if that makes a difference.

So there is something tricky about getting translucency to work with tga’s in 3DC. Now we just have to nail down what it is so that it works in a reproducable way.

I looked at your model, and had no problems whatsoever. My two systems are: Windows Me/ATI Radeon/P3 500 and Windows 98/NVIDIA GeForce MX/K6-2 300. Very different systems. No problem with either. First I replaced the andquot;Scotsmanandquot; with your model. So your model was acting as an engine. Then I moved your whole model (with sd and wag fiels) and added it to the scotsman consist. It loaded fine also on both systems.

So it probably comes down to one of three things:

o) drivers
o) the ace files themselves. They are very large. You might want to try reducing your color depth to 256 colors. At least as a test.
o) some error in the 3DC created S file that only becomes evident on select systems. Or perhaps with select versions of MSTS (UK vs. US versions).

I am at a loss since I can’t reproduce any error here. Could you try reducing the color depth in the tga files? You could also try the new makeace.exe file you mentioned to see if that helps. It could be that my makeace.exe works and yours doesn’t. Maybe you could email me the size (in bytes) of the makeace.exe file you are using. Also, could you email me the size of your andquot;train.exeandquot; file in bytes?

Thanks,

Richard

Maybe this new patch from M$ might help?

andquot;Train Simulator Tools Update
The Microsoft Train Simulator Tools Update contains updated versions of MakeAce.exe and Conv3ds.exe, plus updated documentation for these tools. These tools allow you to create new objects, including locomotives, for use in Microsoft Train Simulator. andquot;

[img:34n5olbh]http&#58;//microsoft&#46;com/games/trainsim/[/img:34n5olbh]
<!– m –><a class="postlink" href="http://microsoft.com/games/trainsim/">http://microsoft.com/games/trainsim/</a>&lt;!– m –>

I’ve reduced it so that there is translucency on only 4 faces and it still crashes.
I have parcelled up all the files and they are in the email for you Richard. Good Luck.

Oh good. I have one of those so I can have a system similar to yours. I am pretty sure it is a bug with my export of course, but it never hurts to have a similar system.

Have you tried the sample scotsman 4 TGA? I would REALLY like it if you did so that I can deal with both at once. All you need to do is select it in 3DC pallete and ensure that what should be transparent is transparent in the material palette preview. It looks correct on my two systems and when that TGA is converted to an ACE file using makeace the resulting ACE file displays properly in MSTS. If you find it doesn’t work, could you send the sctosman 4 TGA to me?

I wonder if there is any possibility that the Makeace utility is different between the UK and Canada? Interpreting translucency information differently. I suppose it is possible.

Richard