Face replace – how?

Ok, checked with our programmer. and 3DGS definitely can handle the displacement maps, but not sure if it will import the models together with those maps.. However, there are a lot of people writing import plugins for 3DGS .. so I’ll let him look around and see if there is anything.. he’d spot it far faster than I XD

In any case ZBrush has just jumped up a couple of steps on my wishlist XD

Ok, this is a funny beginner question. I just can’t seem to find the answer from searches.

Sometimes, instead of starting over again, I want to delete some piece of an object I’m working on. This may leave an area where there are 4 vertices, but even when all four are selected, the area does not seem to respond to operations/tool as a normal face. It remains invisible or transparent. Is there some way to get it to be recognized as a face?

Ok.. so how did I get into this pickle? Well I had extruded, and changed my mind at a later time. Since I tend to try to see if I can find a way the software will do what I need:

I selected the face and tried to extrude negatively to return to the original surface, but instead, the face retreated completely inside (making a cube into an empty box, for instance).

I tried selecting all the ‘vertical’ edges of the extrusion (given that it had been extruded vertically) and shortened them, but was not satisfied that it would be exact. So, I guessed that maybe I needed to remove the unwanted extrusion instead. but this left me with an ‘invisible face’ (a hole in the mesh, which is not being rendered as ‘solid’.

if my question isn’t clear enough, I could do some illustrations…

I’d be grateful for some answers / suggestions about this ^_^

If I follow you…

Download the create triangle plugin and give that a try.

Or you could create a face (plugin) and then join that face to your object and then weld each point to the require places ?

Clear as mud ? Don’t worry Bazza will be along with a much better way of doing it soon <!– s:) –><img src="{SMILIES_PATH}/icon_e_smile.gif" alt=":)" title="Smile" /><!– s:) –>

(If you can’t follow this then let me know and I will post a video ? Which could go into this wiki thing….)

Thanks Alan, I’ll try these things out tonight when I get home .. and read what Bazza has to say too ^_^.

I hope a wiki will become available to us .. that would be so useful for this sort of thing.

It seem as soon as I grasp one idea, I become aware of a dozen more that I don’t understand XD

Have I got this right…
You have a problem with a model and the only way you can find to correct it leaves a hole in the model that needs filling with a new face.
As Alan suggests you could create a new face, scale it to fit, merge it with the model and weld all the points/verts

Or…see attached pic

1) A cube with a hole in it
2) Select one of the edges around the hole and extrude by a very small amount
3) Select the top edge of this new extruded face and drag it up along the y axis till it nearly reaches the edge above it.
4) Right Click on one of the points/verts on the top edge, and from the drop down menu choose Weld to Nearest, do the same for the other vertex/point
5) Magic…a cube without a hole <!– s:D –><img src="{SMILIES_PATH}/icon_e_biggrin.gif" alt=":D" title="Very Happy" /><!– s:D –>


Hee hee yes, magic XD

Although in my case it was a single cube (attached to something else)… but I see the same idea applies ^_^

My approach to 3D modeling is influenced many years of painting in oils and sculpting/modeling in clay, which are both very forgiving – allowing me to take some off, put some back. I know better than to attempt sculpting in stone or painting in water color! XD

So, yes I realize I shouldn’t really have this problem if I am careful with construction, and as I develop better ‘plan-ahead’ strategies, saving more versions and taking care about the order in which elements are added and modified, it will probably happen much less often.

However, if everything else about a model is just right, except for one bit, and I could just remove that bit and ‘plaster the hole’ to make it just right, how cool is that!?

Thanks so very much!! ^_^

[i:6gjfpu48](some of my work can be viewed at [img:6gjfpu48]http&#58;//butterpaw&#46;deviantart&#46;com/[/img:6gjfpu48]
Butterpaw at deviantArt
if anyone’s curious)[/i:6gjfpu48]

Nice site and some nice artwork there…I visit the Deviant Art site quite a lot.
I was thinking of joining up myself sometime, at the moment I just use Image Shack for storing images.

Sorry to read about your sad loss on April 11, it really hits you hard doesn’t it, even though you know it’s coming.
Strange this, but we lost our 11 year old Miniature Poodle ( Rosie) on April 18, likewise she is buried in our garden and we try to spend some time each week ‘ telling’ her whats been going on in our world since she left us.
Hopefully one day we will all be re-united.

If your interested in sculpting organic stuff in 3D you can do this to some extent with 3DC by using the Smoothing feature found on the Object Properties window….I’m not that good at using it but I know someone who is…[b:1p3w9odx]Alan[/b:1p3w9odx].
So maybe he could do a short ‘Get Started’ tutorial for us beginners when he has time…[b:1p3w9odx]Alan?[/b:1p3w9odx]

Going one step further, take a look here….this will really make your eyes pop.
<!– m –><a class="postlink" href="http://www.pixolator.com/zbc/index.php">http://www.pixolator.com/zbc/index.php</a>&lt;!– m –>

Click on some of the Gallery images at the top of the page….these guys and gals are unbelievable at what they can create….makes my stuff look like rubbish.
ZBrush takes sculpting in 3D to it’s extreem, it lets you paint the geometry into the model with a brush/brushes much like you would use a brush in a paint app.
However before you get carried away with this style of modelling you really do need to have a decent knowledge of ‘normal’ 3D modelling to get the best out of it so don’t swap 3DC for ZBrush just yet.
You can use 3DC to build some very basic models then export to Zbrush to sculpt them, although you can build stuff from scratch in ZBrush if you wish.

You can learn a lot about 3D modelling from this guy…Jason Welsh, He’s amazing.
<!– m –><a class="postlink" href="http://www.houseoftutorials.com/page2.html">http://www.houseoftutorials.com/page2.html</a>&lt;!– m –>

and here…
<!– m –><a class="postlink" href="http://www.houseoftutorials.com/page3.html">http://www.houseoftutorials.com/page3.html</a>&lt;!– m –>

Page two is mainly Zbrush stuff…Page 3 is Maya 3D modeling stuff.
Much of the Maya 3D tutorials you can translate to 3DC and you’ll get loads of ideas on how to go about building stuff.

He teaches this stuff at a university somewhere in the USA, the video tutorials you get at this site are what he gives his students…they are very good and you even get homework…hehehe.
Although he uses Maya and Zbrush you can translate most of his ideas to 3DC without to much problem.
I’ve downloaded all the tutorials over a period of time, I really enjoy watching them and it gives my sometimes flagging confidence a big boost. You can also purchase a DVD on the site with all sorts of tutorials.

Take a look at the ZBrush page….
Ignore the ZBrush 3 tutorials for now…toward the bottom of the page you will find one called ZBrush Modeling 102, download this, and I can bet my bottom dollar by the end of it you will have a big smile on your face and feel much more confident about 3D modelling.
The first 5 or 6 minitues may seem a bit confusing as he creates the basic mesh he is going to use with ZBrush spheres.
After that just sit back and enjoy as he manipulates the verts to create a basic head…this part of the video you can translate to use in 3DC. You also get a very good audio commentry as well.

Also take a look at ZBrush Lessons 3,4,5…these are 100% ZBrush modeling but he creates a cartoon/comic book style cat….maybe one day you could have a go at creating a 3D Butterpaw.

Hope some of this helps…


Ah, thanks for your kind words, Bazza, and I wish you and your wife peace and happy memories of your little poodle, Rosie .. we are so fortunate to have these dear little creatures grace our lives. ^_^

As to deviantArt – I recommend it highly – and while I love my paid account, all the accounts, including the free ones, are very functional and have excellent galleries to show your work – because there is space for commentary below each image (after you click the thumbnail to view it) it can be very good for displaying short tutorials too. ^_^ I also use image shack for storing images I want to link to.

I’ve had my eye on ZBrush for some time now – on my wish list! XD. My impression of ZBrush is that it will be high-poly, as are Vue and Poser (which I have). However, for game-building, my present need is to model all sorts of low-poly items, organic and not*.

Yes, [b:7ts3a7n9]Alan[/b:7ts3a7n9], some tutorials please! ^_^ I know it’s possible to produce wonderful organic results, even while keeping the polys under control, and I want to learn!

Thanks for all the good links Bazza, I’m going to have fun with those.. I’m sure I will enjoy the tutorials you mention. I like both written and video tutorials.. they are useful in different ways ^_^

Well now I’m all fired up.. and I have to go to work :/ (heh heh.. patience required)

Here are a couple of high-poly characters I did in Poser will have to be redone totally for game andgt;_andlt;

[b:7ts3a7n9]Edit:[/b:7ts3a7n9]Ooh… watched one of those videos, and see there are good possibilities for reducing the polys .. wow! ^_^

Actually, I’d really like to do models of Finny my little cartoon goldfish character, and his friends [img:7ts3a7n9]http&#58;//home&#46;earthlink&#46;net/%7Ebetterpaw/page_01&#46;htm[/img:7ts3a7n9]
Finny’s World

* [i:7ts3a7n9](I’ve also mentioned this under game development. I’m the creative director for this small informal group, and anyone interested in participating is welcome to PM me to learn more – I just don’t want to clutter up the forum! [img:7ts3a7n9]http&#58;//community&#46;groupee&#46;com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_rolleyes&#46;gif’%20alt=’Roll%20Eyes’%20width=’15’%20height=’15[/img:7ts3a7n9]

Pleased you liked the videos…there’s a lot to learn there.

Your nearly right about ZBrush being a high poly modeler but not quite.
Many of the models you see on the ZBrush site run into millions of polys but thats not how they are eventually used.

The model starts off at around say 1000 polys, this is it’s base layer. You keep adding an extra layer and dividing the polys as you go to add the extra detail. My system will only handle around 7 or 8 of these layers/divisions but that takes the poly count for a figure to aroung three and a half million. <!– s:D –><img src="{SMILIES_PATH}/icon_e_biggrin.gif" alt=":D" title="Very Happy" /><!– s:D –>

When your done modelling/sculpting…just before your system reaches a melt down stage <!– s:D –><img src="{SMILIES_PATH}/icon_e_biggrin.gif" alt=":D" title="Very Happy" /><!– s:D –>
(only joking) is you create what is called a displacement map of the figure at this three million poly stage.

You then export the base layer model which was only 1000 polys but apply the displacement map to it.
Modern graphics cards can read this map and displace the polys on the low poly figure to make it look like the three million poly version.
There are other maps that also need to be created to achieve the effect, Bump maps, normal maps and one other I can’t remember the name of.

So while your Poser figure will always be high poly say around 20,000, your ZBrush figure will only be around 1000 polys but look like three million poly figure.

The downside is you need a 3D engine that will import the figure and the different types of maps…there’s always a snag isn’t there. <!– s:) –><img src="{SMILIES_PATH}/icon_e_smile.gif" alt=":)" title="Smile" /><!– s:) –>


Well I,ll need to check what 3D Game Studio can do. Not sure if it could handle the displacement maps, but it does handle the others… It is the best engine we could find in the price range and seems pretty decent.. but the jump to the next level of engine is thousands of dollars.. and we’re just indy.. don’t even know if we’ll get our game out there – nevertheless we persevere – it sure keeps me out of mischief XD .

I would [i:2qvzsxiq]love[/i:2qvzsxiq] to get ZBrush, but right now.. a new solid number-crunching computer is on my agenda. I’m having one built, as being the cheaper way to get exactly what I want, but even so.. that’s bunch of legal tender [img:2qvzsxiq]http&#58;//community&#46;groupee&#46;com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_razz&#46;gif’%20alt=’Razz’%20width=’15’%20height=’15[/img:2qvzsxiq]

However, 2 years ago I didn’t dream I’d be at this point.. so .. who knows? ^_^ many thanks for the explanations and encouragement.. it is so much fun to learn new things! <!– s:D –><img src="{SMILIES_PATH}/icon_e_biggrin.gif" alt=":D" title="Very Happy" /><!– s:D –>

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