ACE file size?

So basically this involves another step in the process? andnbsp;If I just started with a andquot;NEWandquot; alpha channel would I have to ball park or guess at where the proper places for the transparencies go or could I use a sort of andquot;overlayandquot; from the original object as a guide? andnbsp; If yes, would I just copy andamp; paste from the original or would that take me out of the Alpha Program?
JC

I’ve noticed in the 5 or 6 objects I’ve exported to MSTS that the file size produced by 3D always seems to be 1,029 KB. andnbsp;Is this linked somehow to the size of the bitmap (512×512 in most cases)? andnbsp;Is there any way to reduce the size of these files by compression or is there even any point in trying to do so??? andnbsp;thanks for the great support and backup in helping me get rolling on this!!!
Joe C.

Yes, the size of the .ace file is directly linked to the dimensions of the bitmap (or .tga) on which it’s based. A smaller (256 x 256, or 128 x 128 ) bitmap (or .tga) will give you smaller .ace file sizes, but will result in andquot;fuzzierandquot; looking textures in the game, but they are good for things that might not require super-crisp detail. When you run the sim, and the textures are loaded for all of the objects you’re looking at, every little bit of reduced work counts.

Now, there is also a way to compress your .ace files by downloading tools available from [img:32rkv6tb]http://fly.to/mwgfx[/img:32rkv6tb]
<!– m –><a class="postlink" href="http://fly.to/mwgfx">http://fly.to/mwgfx</a>&lt;!– m –>
. AceComp will compress the files without any loss of quality, but the amount of compression depends on the complexity of the texture (textures with big areas of the same color will compress greatly, but finely detailed and complex textures won’t compress as much). It works well. The other tool available there is (I think) DXTBmp, or something similar. It will compress all .ace files to the same small sizes (the actual file size is determined again by the dimensions of the image), but the compression is lossy, ie. you might see andquot;bandingandquot; of colors or other wierdness where you have detailed gradients of color, much like in a bad .jpg image. Also, I don’t think the DXT tool will work with ALL images, for some reason. This may have been improved recently, though. . .it should say on the website if there would be any problems.

Hope this helps!

Thanks Troub… I’ll try the fly.to site. andnbsp;Don’t really have a problem with disc space… just thought the program would run smoother with smaller object ACE files…. any thoughts on this? andnbsp;Thanks again..
Joe C. (NYOandamp;W…New York/Pennsylvania)

I haven’t downloaded the patch yet either. andnbsp;I am little spooked by some of the comments on the Train-Sim site about issues not yet addressed so I think I’ll hold off for the next patch. andnbsp;I will try the fly.to site however. andnbsp; I would like to try to keep frame hits to a minimum although I have recently upgraded my graphics card to nVidia with great results (some frame rates as high as the upper 30s … without much traffic around… but as low as 7 or 8 in crowded urban settings with AI traffic….compression might help in crowded areas with lots of structures and scenery! andnbsp; Any thoughts?

Yeah, I forgot about the compression in the new versions of makeace. I still have never downloaded the patch. . .I never had any problems without it, so. . . <!– s:) –><img src="{SMILIES_PATH}/icon_e_smile.gif" alt=":)" title="Smile" /><!– s:) –>

Yes, I think smaller .ace file sizes could improve performance. . .in an area with large numbers of textures, or in a long train, especially. I am unsure if compressed textures require less video memory (which would mean less swapping in and out of memory, and able to store more textures in memory at once), or if they are uncompressed when loaded. Either way, with the smaller files there is less to transfer from disk, which is a bottleneck for many people’s computers. You know, when you’re getting ready to enter a town or something, and the sim andquot;pausesandquot; or stutters while it’s loading everything from disk? Compression should lessen this effect, if nothing else. That’s why it’s a good idea to compress your shape (.s) and world (.w) files, and the same would go for textures. If you have a 1MB .ace file, and you can compress that to 100K, that’s significantly less to load from the hard drive.

I notice on the MWGFX website they list TGAtool2 as a utility. andnbsp;I already have that and I find it indispensible…. it has a compression option…. does that include the compression tool you were referring to? andnbsp;Would you recommend always leaving that checked … or disable it when converting locomotive files and operating objects… andnbsp; I also still haven’t tackled how to create Alpha files (TGA??) or whatever. Any tips or tricks to doing that within TGAtool2?

The stuff from mwgfx is brilliant and well worth downloading. However, if you have installed the MSTS patch you will have a utility called (I think, can’t check, I’m not at home at the moment) Makeacewin, or something similar. This lets you make ace files in Windows and compresses far better than the original Makeace.

Regards

Richard Scott

Hi Troub,

TGATools2 now uses your copy of makeace.exe for compression, it has a box which asks which version of makeace you are using, and whether you need compression.

However TGATools2 only appears to work correctly for square files and does not seem to work correctly for oblong files such as are used in cab controls etc.

Mike.

I don’t really use tgatool, so I’m not sure if it includes the compression. andnbsp;I’m pretty sure that the way it works is you have to download acecomp (which compresses with no loss of quality, so you should always do this), and then in an options menu somewhere tell tgatool where you put the acecomp.exe file. andnbsp;Then, when you have that box checked, it will automatically run your textures through acecomp. andnbsp;Like I said, acecomp is lossless compression, so it shouldn’t hurt to use it on locos, rolling stock, or anything. andnbsp;I presume that it uses some form of run-length encoding, meaning that if, say, a string of 80 pixels are all the same color, it replaces the 80 separate definitions for those pixels with one definition of the color and a value that tells it that the next 79 are the same color, in a nutshell. andnbsp;So, if you have a texture that is much the same color (like my Illinois Central repaints have a lot of solid black), the files can come out [i:28kgf0wm]very[/i:28kgf0wm] small. andnbsp;Complex textures with color gradients and fine details don’t compress as well because there’s not such long stretches of the same color value. andnbsp;That’s how it manages not to lose any detail. andnbsp;The DXTBmp one is the one you want to watch, because it will remove some color detail in order to achieve a certain compression level, but the advantage is that the files [i:28kgf0wm]always[/i:28kgf0wm] come out the same size, and are very small.

I can tell you what I can about .tga’s, but first, they’re a little tricky. andnbsp;I don’t use tgatool, so I can’t give you help there, but I can give you some basics. andnbsp;You can have two type of alpha channel: translucent and transparent. andnbsp;Transparent alpha channels use just 1 bit per pixel, so the alpha andquot;maskandquot; is either andquot;onandquot; or andquot;offandquot;, white or black. andnbsp;So, you would paint everything white, except what you want to see through. andnbsp;You’d paint those parts black (I might have the colors switched, it might be the other way around–I never can remember). andnbsp;When you makeace the transparent alpha channel .tga’s, you want to use the -trans option with makeace (I think).

Translucent alpha channels use 24 bits for the color texture and 8 bits for the alpha channel (normally the entire 32 bits is devoted to the color channel, so when you use a translucent 8 bit alpha channel, you lose some color information, which may lead to undesirable andquot;bandingandquot; or other artificacts caused by not accurately reproducing color gradients). andnbsp;With translucency, the 8 bit alpha channel stores a [i:28kgf0wm]grayscale[/i:28kgf0wm], so instead of just andquot;see-throughandquot; or andquot;not-see-throughandquot;, you can have varying degrees of opacity. andnbsp;The principle is the same as with the transparent alpha channel as far as colors, except if you want something in between opaque and transparent (like a dirty window), you just paint the parts you want to look cloudy some degree of gray (with the andquot;blacknessandquot; or andquot;whitenessandquot; of the gray color determining the opacity of that section).

Note that you must also set the material value for translucency properly in 3DC for any of this to work right, but I can’t remember the proper values. andnbsp;There’s a lot that I don’t know off the top of my head, but I get it through experimenting (or by doing a search on the board andnbsp;;) ).

I’m not a very good teacher, so I hope some of this made at least a little bit of sense andnbsp;:-/

Thanks Troub and thanks Mike…. great tutorial on the Alpha channel. I understand from the tutorial on UKTrainSim that MSTS can only accommodate one Alpha channel per object so complexity is out the equation. To Troub….TGAtool2 does indeed have the MakeAce (is this Acecomp you were talking about?) compression built in. Tried it last night to modify an existing Alpha and it worked perfectly. To Mike…. if I use TGAtool2 to make a andquot;newandquot; Alpha where none existed before and click on the Make Alpha Template will this highlight all the objects in the main screen with a black mask profile and then allow me to pick and choose my transparency areas or do I have to do it all from scratch???
Thanks for the great help and Troub you are a good teacher…..!

I found that when I use the ‘Make alpha template’ in TGATools2, then I had to send the template to my graphics editor (Paint Shop Pro 7), make it completely black rather than gray, then add it to the alpha channel of the image file, and save the combined file as a new .tga file.

This could then be converted to a new .ace file with makeace.

Mike.

Mike…. I’ve investigated TGAtool2 and they do provide the necessary tools to use a grayscale Alpha template to block out your transparency areas and export them with the basic texture. andnbsp;I haven’t tried it yet but it is in TGAtool 2(version 2 only … not the earlier one). andnbsp;It also supports the Makeace update provided by Microsoft and does compression of files very effectively. andnbsp;I haven’t used the Alpha successfully yet!

Hi Joe,

I do not think you can produce an alpha channel from within TGATools2 (earlier versions used to do this automatically if you painted something pure green)

You really do need to use a paint program which supports alpha channels (PSP or Adobe Photo Shop).

Somewhere on this site is a link to Ian Morgan’s tutorial on building a railway wagon in 3DC, it includes good instructions on making an alpha channel in Paint Shop Pro.

Mike.

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