3DCrafter 9 fails on startup — DEP Problem?

Previously entered this message in "Bug Fixes" by mistake. I will try again here.

I previously had #DC 8.2 installed and working great. Just downloaded and installed 3DC 9 and am getting a frail on startup that Windows is saying is due to DEP problem. I have uninstalled and reinstalled with same results. Since the installer created a new folder (3D Crafter) for the version 9 install, it left 3DC 8.2 in place. When I tried to open version 8.2 it said that some items were now missing. I tried to do a reinstall of 8.2 and now it also fails on startup due to a DEP issue. ( DEP errors are usually security issues or related to misuse of memory resources.) I would have thought that the new versions would overlay the old version, in the same folder, but I’m sure you guys have good reason to not do this. BTW, when I did a reinstall of version 8.2 it mentioned that it found conflicts (other useage) for several files (non-3DC, including a Steam file). At any rate, now I have no operating 3DC of any version. I have tried to attach a copy of the 3DCanvas.log file (in Documents) but it isn’t allowed, but I see no errors, so this may be a Windows interface issue. I did not find a log for the new version 9. I would appreciate some advice on how to get out of this pickle.

My system is Vista 64 Ultimate, my hardware is a quad Intel processor with 8 GB fast memory, and an Invidia 800 series graphics card. I am using Norton 360, MalwareBytes, Spybot, and Adaware for virus and malware protection. The error notice is coming from Windows, not any of the virus or malware programs.

Thanks for your assistance.

Doug

I responded to this herel [url:3jte29xb]http://amabilis.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=31&t=5744[/url:3jte29xb]

Thanks for the feedback. I will keep the responses on this part of the board since it seems a more appropriate place.

Yes, I have uninstalled the previous version and the 9.0.4 versions entirely. Since I finally noted that I am not eligible for the 9.0.4 Pro Upgrade (missed it by a few months), I decided to just reinstall version 8.2. When I installed it clean, at startup I still get the fail on startup. The splash screen appears and then almost immediately Windows gives the "Failed, Ask or Close" notice. When I close the app I get a notice that the reason is due to a DEP issue. It also gives a good explanation of what this means and how to resolve it. DEP, as you know, is a process in Vista and Windows 7 that tries to lock out malicious software and attacks on the system. One of the options is to go into the system control panel and tell DEP to protect everything EXCEPT "3DCanvas8.exe", which is what I did. Unfortunately that did not work at all. Same issue. It is possible that the problem is not with the .exe file but one of the other associated modules, but I didn’t want to go that far just yet and add every file in the 3D Canvas folder into the ignore list on DEP. DEP is doing a security task that is important, and no program should really require turning off this protection.

So, I guess I am asking for some input. Has anyone else ever found a problem with the program butting heads with DEP? How did they resolve it? Is there something in the installation process that I can check to tell me where else to look? Is there a way to tell if there are missing files (files that for some reason didn’t install)? I am truly at a loss on this one.

Thanks for the assistance.

Doug

No DEP problems on my systems ( XP home and Win 7 ) with 3D Crafter 8 and 9.
And I did install/uninstall a lot lately, with al the updates.

I would uninstall all versions of 3DCrafter, and then run a program like CCleaner, to remove all traces of 3DCrafter in the registry.

Regards

Gerrit

Thanks for the feedback. I did remove all versions of the application, and then ran CCCleaner to remove all the leftovers. I reinstalled version 8.2 and ended up with the same problem. DEP conflict, shut down by Windows to "avoid damage". I have entered the 3DCanvas8.exe into the DEP setup screen telling it to ignore that application, which for most people solves their problem and in the process opens up a nasty hole in their security net. Still 3DC wouldn’t load without a DEP failure. My fingers hurt from endless Google searching for answers to no avail. Just about everyone references a Microsoft Support letter, all included steps of which I have already done, so that is going nowhere.

The version of 3DC that I have been loading came from a download from back when 8.2 was released, and it has worked great until I tried loading version 9.04. When the new version was loaded, this DEP thing started. After 9.04 got the error, when I went back to try 8.2 it also got the error. Logic would tell me that something in the load of 9.04 woke up the DE?P system and it is still grouchy 3 days later. I am at a loss. I’m no beginner in getting into the nitty gritty of PC’s, been doing it since they first came out, and I have usually been able to ferret out these kind of problems, but this one has me completely stumped. I am in the middle of graphic projects on 3DC and now it is useless to me. I have log info, but it hasn’t told me anything useful yet. If anyone else wants to see the logs, just let me know and I’ll be glad to email them to you. If anyone has any creative ideas about where to look, I’m open to all suggestions.

Again, my specs are: Intel Q6600 quad processor, 8 GB RAM, Windows Vista 64 Ultimate (all latest updates), 3 TB of Hard Drive,nVidia XFX 8800 GPU, no overclocking.

I am still looking for assistance. There has to be an answer. Thanks to all.

Doug

It could be an other program that is starting or doing something after you start 3DCrafter8.exe
Like Norton 360 or your malware protection software .

I had a similar problem on a PC at work, where a plug-in of Internet Explorer caused a DEP error.
The error message was indicating that Internet Explorer was causing the DEP error, but it was the plug-in.

Hope this helps or puts your search in the right direction.

Regards

Gerrit

Hi folks,

I finally got version 8.27 and 9.04 to operate, BUT only after long and painful exercises with the DEP system in Vista 64. I ended up having to list both programs as exceptions in the system, making them immune from its checking and security. I don’t like this, but it was the only way to make it work.

All of this came about after a total of 15 installs and uninstalls of 3DC, which did nothing, and many many hours of net googling to find solutions to the DEP issue, which also didn’t work. Finally went back to my old standard, the "scientific method" (gather data, change one parameter at a time, look at the results, and update the data). During the exercise I learned a few things about DEP and how it affects us.

1. The reason many people don’t see these errors too often is that by default 32 bit Windows only applies DEP to basic system resources. I have 64 bit Windows, and 64 bit Windows defaults to checking DEP on EVERY transaction in the computer, not just basic operations.

2. Any operation that tries to create or spawn code (particularly drivers) rather than just execute code will trigger DEP to stop the application. This is done to protect from Trojan Horses that come in a small piece of code but then create a larger program after execution. Good policy, but in some cases a pain in the neck. Some applications may be doing this function for good reason, so DEP is not always right. Still don’t know why 3DC set off DEP’s trigger.

3. DEP has a function that allows one to exclude an "offending" program from its oversight. This is obviously both good and bad, since it opens up that application for "funny business", though it usually will allow the program to run.

NOTE: When the application (3D Crafter) fails, an error note appears. Close the error note and a task bar comes up from the task bar that if clicked on will give you a help screen, and near the bottom a link to take you to another that tells you how to do an exclusion. A link to the SYSTEM function in Control Panel will be there and you should click it, following the instructions in the help note.

. After a startup of 3DC fails for DE?P error, and after you have excluded the program in DEP, start the program again. This time you will see the same error note, but this time make sure you answer NO to "Do you want to revert to default settings for 3DC" and if everything went right the program should start.

4. That is the short story. In my case it didn’t work the first time….or the next 14 times. I did endless registry cleaning, looking for error logs, application loading logs, virus checker logs, etc. etc. I tried installing 3DC on other drives…didn’t do anything. I discovered that you can’t remove a DEP exception listings if you have already deleted the program you are excepting (duh!). In the process of reloading the 9.0.4 version of 3DC, to allow removal of the exception entry that I no longer needed ( I can’t use 9.04 since I am beyond the time limit for a free upgrade so I can get back my Pro status), after removing the original exception, I tried running 3DC again, got the error again. Went back and reloaded the exception, restarted 3DC, got the error, chose NO in the error note, and the program started up OK. I then did the same with the 8.2.7 version, changing to a different directory to avoid a conflict with 9.0.4 and did all the same things, including adding a new exception, and it eventually started up OK….unprotected, but up and running.

5. Interesting thing I noticed. When I installed 3DC I noticed that during the install process a notification appears saying that eDC wants to change some files that are associated with other applications. It suggests shutting them down to let this happen. Here was the list.

Symantic Service Framewrk id#3924 (Norton antivirus)*
Steam Process id 4588 (Steam the game company)*
System Settings Protection id 4600 (Windows)
Thunderbird 5592 (email client)*
Firefox 1924 ( browser)*
SBSD Security Center Service id 2532 (Windows)

I was able to shut down all the * items, but the two Windows services cannot be stopped. I’m not sure why 3DC would be modifying Windows files, or any of the others, but that is what it was suggesting was being attempted during the install. Two choices are given, either shut them down or just continue. I tried both ways, though the final installs that worked I chose to continue. Don’t know if this is a problem, but it certainly was curious.

Nonetheless, I’m back up and running now, and I thank all the contributors for their inputs. Hope this info helps someone else in the future.

Doug

Interesting explanation about solving DEP errors.
Thanks for sharing.

I still don’t understand why it doesn’t happen on every computer.
I installed 3DC numerous times ( Win 7 64 bits) and never had a DEP error.
Might have something to do with security settings, or Vista is more unforgivable about DEP errors than Win 7.

Regards

Gerrit

is it maybe linked to how current your updates are for the windows platform.? A very interesting problem and one we could all encounter at some stage. thanks

For what it is worth, just prior to this problem I did get a "gift pack" of Windows Vista 64 specific security updates, a package of 8 at one time. Not enough real data to prove one cause or another right now, but your guess may be on track. Lazy me, I have my updates set for automatic update install, so I get them all as soon as they come out. I would rethink this if MS would give us some hint as to what the updates are "really" doing. Normally its just "Urgent Security Update #xyz", but "urgent" and "security" usually get my undivided attention so I don’t usually need any other explanation.. Meanwhile I’m happy to be using 3DC again, and that is what counts.

Thanks for the comments.

Doug

I wasn’t even aware of &quot;DEP&quot; <!– s:oops: –><img src="{SMILIES_PATH}/icon_redface.gif" alt=":oops:" title="Embarrassed" /><!– s:oops: –> Thanks for the information on all of this.

I’m bumping this one. It seems important.